Five Questions With:
Georgia Mejia on Neurodiversity
September 17, 2024
Brian Ledder of Ark/HLW talks with Georgia Mejia from Dyspraxia America on neurodiversity in the workplace and what we as designers can be doing to better to accommodate these individuals. This episode uncovers what dyspraxia is and answers questions about how to improve your workplace for the neurodiverse. Duration: 21min 31sec
Transcript:
Brian Ledder
Hi there, welcome to Five Questions With Podcast. My name is Brian Ledder from the Ark Research Lab. And today, we have five questions with Georgia Mejia from Dyspraxia America. She's here to answer our questions about neurodiversity in the workplace and what we as designers can be doing better to accommodate these individuals. First of all, Georgia, thanks for taking the time to share your expertise with us today. Neurodiversity is an important topic, and it's not often that we get to talk directly with an expert on the subject.
Georgia Mejia
Thanks, Brian. I'm happy to be here. I couldn't agree more. It's an important topic to discuss, as I think there's a lot of learning that needs to happen out there. So, I'm excited to educate the community.
Brian Ledder
Absolutely and thank you. So, I want to get started with our five questions, but I think we need to start from the basics because dyspraxia is a relatively unspoken about neurological condition. I certainly knew very little about it before we started talking. So, with question one, can you tell me what is dyspraxia and how common is it?
Georgia Mejia
Yeah, it's actually quite common despite the fact that it's relatively unheard of. It is estimated that 6% to 8% of children have dyspraxia, which clearly, they grow up to be dyspraxic adults. I think it's estimated around 20 million Americans have dyspraxia. So that puts it at a larger percentage than autism even. And that's surprising just in the sense that autism has gained so much traction in terms of support and resources. And yet, dyspraxia is still relatively unheard of.
Brian Ledder
Yeah, that's really surprising. It's a high number. We’ve talked before about diagnoses in the US versus the UK. Are those numbers consistent in those two nations or does it vary?
Georgia Mejia
I would imagine that diagnosed or undiagnosed, the same percentage of individuals have dyspraxia. It's just not as well known in the United States by doctors, therapists and parents. A lot of kids grow up undiagnosed and thus unsupported.
And to get back to the original question, what is dyspraxia? You might also hear it being called Developmental Coordination Disorder or DCD; it is the same thing. It's a neurological condition that affects fine and gross motor in three ways: ideation, motor planning and execution. Does the person understand what needs to be done? Can they organize the thoughts in their mind to plan out how to do it, and can they execute it? People can struggle with all three parts of the process.
Brian Ledder
Okay. Wow. There's a lot going on there.
Georgia Mejia
Yeah, for sure. This is sad to say, but in the past before anybody knew about dyspraxia, it was called ‘clumsy child syndrome.’ Thankfully, we have since done away with that terminology. But if you think about yourself growing up, did you ever see some kids that you thought were clumsy? Kids aren't born clumsy, right? There are reasons why they can't coordinate their body, or they can't make their arms work with their legs. And now we're learning a lot more about that. And now we have a name for it so, we can start to get some support.
Outside of the motor planning parts, there are some other non-motor related symptoms that show up as well: visual-spatial processing—so, where is their body in space, executive functioning, and working memory. These would definitely show up in the workplace as well. So, happy to be talking about those.
Brian Ledder
Yeah, definitely. That's what we're most focused on here: the workplace. But it's something that obviously, as you mentioned, starts in early childhood with the diagnosis. To call it ‘clumsy child syndrome’ gives it a stigma that we don't want. So, I'm glad to see that you're working in a direction that's allowing it to become well known, more diagnosed in the US and provide a better name for it. That leads me to question two: What kind of support does your organization provide for people with dyspraxia?
Georgia Mejia
We are a relatively small organization, but we have big and lofty goals. The premise of the foundation is to number one, raise awareness. Then, provide resources to families and individuals, educate communities and support research. Right now, if you go to a pediatrician, most likely your pediatrician has never heard of dyspraxia and therefore cannot recommend that your child go see an occupational therapist or a physical therapist. Even if you do see an occupational therapist or a physical therapist, chances are they haven't heard of it either. So, you're not going to get a diagnosis there. It's a real struggle. Raising awareness is the number one thing that we need to do. So, we have some grassroot efforts to get into the school systems and reach out to the occupational therapists and physical therapists to make sure they're aware of what it is.
And then we are trying to work within the government to raise awareness and create a Dyspraxia Awareness Day. We're pretty far along in that process and it looks like that's going to happen. Once we raise awareness at the government level, then we can really start to provide some financial support because let's just say you do end up with occupational therapy or physical therapy. A lot of therapies are not covered by insurance. So even if you did know what was going on, you may not have the resources to even go down that path.
Brian Ledder
Right? Which is why it all starts with awareness. You've got politicians on one hand, doctors on another, then also parents. And if just one of those groups doesn't have the awareness that this is an issue, it prevents people from accessing support through their insurance.
Georgia Mejia
Yep, and it's not covered in school. So, if your child would benefit from an IEP (Individual Education Plan) or an individualized plan, dyspraxia in and of itself is not a diagnosis that is recognized by the school system. There won't be support for it.
Brian Ledder
Oh really? Wow. But I guess if no one is aware, that has to become your starting point, right? So, a lot of work, I would imagine, to get all those different parties involved and build the awareness. But great to hear you've got the Dyspraxia Awareness Day. That's exciting.
Georgia Mejia
Yeah, absolutely. Well, not yet. That's our goal.
Brian Ledder
But it looks like you will.
Georgia Mejia
Yeah, absolutely.
Brian Ledder
Great. Okay, you alluded to challenges in the workplace a little bit. Obviously, that's something we're focused on as designers since we can directly impact the workplace. So, that's my third question. What are the specific challenges someone with dyspraxia might face in the workplace?
Georgia Mejia
Executive functioning would be number one and I think what helps with that is breaking down steps into their individual parts. I'll use a child as an example because I have a small son with dyspraxia and he's seven, so generally that's what I'm dealing with. He may come downstairs in a shirt, his underwear, his socks and shoes and say, ‘I'm ready for school.’
And I'm like, okay, but you're not ready for school yet. Just the executive functioning that it takes to work through what are the steps I need to take to go to school? Even if he nails that portion of it, he may have forgotten to brush his teeth, or he can't figure out how to tie his shoes, or some part of the process just isn't clicking from start to finish.
So, when you think about a work task, getting from point A in a project to Z might need to be spelled out in a very step by step process so they don't miss anything. Maybe there are visual cues that are set up for them or something that allows them to follow this pathway to Z so that their brain isn’t constantly trying to make these leaps.
Then, working memory. Short term memory can be a bit of an issue. But on the flip side, long term memory is super on point. Once it is ingrained in their memory bank, they're going to remember it until the cows come home.
Brian Ledder
Yeah. It's almost like they're given this extra superpower.
Georgia Mejia
Absolutely! I think there are definitely ways around that. By the time a dyspraxic kid becomes an adult, they have found unique ways to get around some of their deficits because they had to, and they do have some strengths or superpowers as you alluded to. I will point them out only to say, hey, it's really important to support them in the workplace because the plus side to their personalities is that they are very empathetic, resilient and persistent. They had to be for 20-some-odd years or however long it's taken them to get to that point. Their long-term memory is likely on point. They remember every single thing that you said, and they're very strategic thinkers.
Generally, they have a good sense of humor because they've learned to laugh at themselves through the process. So, there are some really big, strong points that they're bringing to the table. And I think it's important to note that dyspraxia does not affect intelligence. In fact, generally speaking, they are at or way beyond average intelligence.
Brian Ledder
It’s the kind of thing they've been working harder their whole lives in a lot of ways to overcome this. They have to focus on those motor skills and all those movements that maybe we take for granted if you don't have this condition, but they built up that skillset.
Georgia Mejia
Exactly. I don't know whether if it’s chicken or egg. If it's, hey, they were born as very good problem solvers, or they have become very good problem solvers because they had to solve a lot of problems for themselves.
Brian Ledder
Right? They've been working harder for longer.
Georgia Mejia
That's right.
Brian Ledder
So, are there any other social skills that go along with this? Stimulation overload is something that we often see with different neurological conditions. Is that a factor as well with dyspraxia in the workplace?
Georgia Mejia
Most definitely. I think it's important to note that dyspraxia rarely walks alone. It can exist in isolation for sure, but chances are it's going to coexist or co-occur with some other condition, whether it be ADHD, autism, dyslexia, dysgraphia or some of those other neurodiverse diagnosis. And you know, you meet one dyspraxic person, you've met one dyspraxic person. But there is a lot of sensory overload, which is similar to some of the other conditions too.
When you're talking about dyspraxia or any of the other conditions, it's ‘Hey, how do you set up a work environment that allows these individuals to come in and have the spoons to do their work?’ If you haven't heard that terminology before, ‘I'm out of spoons today’ means that their mental load is so tapped out that they can't function anymore. They literally can't function anymore because they're so sensitive to sound, smell, taste or touch. All of those senses, when those needs aren't met or they're not in a calm environment and they're on overload, can be fight or flight. They can have major ramifications on their mental and social wellbeing for sure.
I think that the idea, and correct me if I'm wrong, your goal is just setting up an office environment that allows people to come and be at their best socially and mentally, which benefits them and the organization, right?
Brian Ledder
Yeah, that's exactly right. And you're alluding to my fourth question here, which is what can we, as designers and architects do to create spaces that better accommodate these individuals? After all, they're all so different and unique. How can we design office spaces, knowing that we have to design for the masses?
Georgia Mejia
Yeah, I think that's a tough one. Like I mentioned, you meet one dyspraxic, you’ve met one dyspraxic. They are not all going to be alike and they're sensitive to different things. I think allowing as many options as you can in terms of can I adjust my own lighting or do I have choices in terms of zoning. For example, are there quiet spaces or pods that I can go to work in, or I'm in a safe space and I can decompress? Is there some kind of calm room? Maybe there's guided meditation, maybe there are swings or some kind of fidget area or something where people can ground themselves a little bit if they're feeling overstimulated.
This doesn't have to do with office design per se, but a culture that really listens to people when they say, ‘Hey, I can't do this right now in this office environment, in this loud and chaotic room. I can't be in this environment right now.’ And trusting that they need to be out of that environment or having options to go somewhere else or get themselves into a different type of space. I think that in this kind of office zoning, is just making sure that you have these different sensory elements of your workplace where they have options to go.
Brian Ledder
Yeah, in a lot of ways that's something everyone could benefit from. Everyone wants to get away and have a quiet area once in a while and be able to take a sensory break.
Georgia Mejia
Absolutely. I mean, all signs point to the fact that I'm not neurodiverse, but when I am extremely overloaded, I would love to be able to go somewhere where it's quiet. Now I can work through it without breaking down, but a lot of people who are neurodiverse cannot do that. If they are overstimulated, their body will shut down or they themselves will have a meltdown. It may affect them mentally, not just for that moment or that day, it could be weeks.
Brian Ledder
I imagine that builds up and however it is affecting you, you're not functioning at your best, which is what we want in the workplace. We want to be at our best and proving that we're doing good work. Our employers of course, want that as well. There's a financial bottom line to getting the most out of all your employees.
I'm curious because this is a condition that affects motor skill sets. And you mentioned being able to move around and access certain areas. Are there things that we can do as designers or should be doing as designers to make it easier to navigate the space or to not be injured if we bump into something? Are there simple things like that regarding the physical space or furniture that we're including?
Georgia Mejia
Yeah, absolutely. I think number one is wide walkways for a couple different reasons. Dyspraxic individuals are going to stumble a little bit. But if they have room to navigate, especially in a crowded area where they have room to navigate around people without bumping into them or into walls. They’ll feel like it's safe to navigate the hallway and that's number one.
Having some consistency throughout the building. So, no matter what floor they're on or what portion of the building they're on, it feels consistent. They’ll feel like they know this building or this office setup, so they are not learning something new over and over again.
Softer edges, whether it is rounded desks or just making sure there aren't sharp corners that are out there for everyone to maybe fall into. Then, consistency, even in door poles and switches and things like that. Just having those be really easy to navigate and consistent so that they know what to expect. And as much as you can, limit things. Whether it be doors or locks or things that require a lot of manipulation with respect to fine motor, steer clear of those because dyspraxic individuals struggle with fine motor and some, a lot more than others. For some, a lock even can be a little bit daunting.
Brian Ledder
Oh wow. Okay, there's a lot to consider there.
Georgia Mejia
Yeah, for sure.
Brian Ledder
And how about things like lighting or colors of the space? Like neutral colors versus brighter, standout, sharp colors? Are these considerations as well?
Georgia Mejia
Yeah, I would say so from the standpoint of just comorbidity or co-occurrences. I don't know that I would say they're specifically dyspraxic related. But like I mentioned, it rarely walks alone. Sensory processing disorder and a lot of co-occurring conditions are really sensitive to light. It would definitely benefit most dyspraxic individuals if lighting were taken into consideration like if it has soft lighting or if aesthetic things have a sort of neutral palette.
Sometimes you walk into an office building, it is really beautiful building aesthetically, but the rugs just are very bright and vibrant with a lot of different patterns. And then you move up to the wall and it's got a whole different pattern. It looks really cool, but it's probably overwhelming to somebody who gets very easily overstimulated and/or easily distracted.
Brian Ledder
So, there's a lot to design for. I think the biggest takeaway for me is that you can't design for any one person, and you can't design for every situation. But as you said, if you can provide different zones or different spaces to take a sensory break and to get away when you need to, that may be the best way to accommodate people just because every situation is going to be so unique.
Georgia Mejia
Absolutely. And then, of course, you're going to have your people in the organization that want to be around other people all the time. They thrive in a little bit of chaos and a little bit of noise, and you got to accommodate them too. It’s definitely a delicate balance. But if you allow flexibility and allow options for those things, then everybody should have some autonomy in how their day goes.
Brian Ledder
Yeah, allowing flexibility is a big one. And it brings me to my final question. What are some of the things outside of the design of the physical space that would make the workplace more accommodating? Is it policy related? Is it flexibility?
Georgia Mejia
Flexibility would be number one. I mentioned the spoon theory with dyspraxic individuals a little while ago, but really, it applies to everyone. If someone needs a mental break, trusting them enough to say, ‘Okay, you know what's best for your mental state.’ It’s a work from home day or some arrangement where they have some options, right? And trusting them enough to know their own body well enough to make that decision for themselves.
In terms of awareness, there definitely are some buzzwords for neurodiversity in the workplace. But are we having the right kind of communication internally to really raise awareness of what these diagnoses are and how to really support them, and how to be inclusive?
Awareness is one thing, but inclusivity, true inclusivity, is something totally different. There is a social element, especially when you're dealing with a lot of individuals who have grown up undiagnosed or unsupported. That takes a toll over time, and maybe they have disengaged in certain activities, or they don't feel confident in their abilities to do X, Y, or Z. And that has likely taken a toll on their interactions with other people.
So having understanding, having empathy. I think we talked about this briefly before, if we think a little bit more on, ‘Hey, we're going to have this icebreaker or we're going to have this team building experience’ and then making it something like, I don't know, kickball or something that have kind of an athletic undertone is likely not for everybody, certainly isn't going to be for a lot of dyspraxic individuals. I can tell you right now, if it requires a lot of hand eye coordination, it's going to be a no go. So rather than kind of like helping them bond with the team, it's likely going to make them feel very isolated. Best case scenario, they're going to feel highly uncomfortable. They'll get through it, but it'll take a toll. And they may be embarrassed. I don't think there's going to be many situations where they're going to say, that was awesome.
Brian Ledder
Let's do kickball every week.
Georgia Mejia
Yeah. Just thinking through things like that, which are very well-intentioned things. But just thinking through, ‘Okay, what does this mean for the neurodiverse population? Would they like it and how could we do things differently?’ Because connectivity is important, whether it's dyspraxia, whether it's the autistic community, whether it's ADHD. In my experience, and I know it's not all encompassing, but they are very social individuals who can become quite insulated just because of their experiences growing up. But if you engage them, they are quite personable and funny, but understanding them is crucial.
Brian Ledder
Absolutely. And raising awareness that this condition exists, it’s out there, people do have it and it's quite common, is super important. But like you said, you want to be able to engage these people and draw out their best qualities. And that happens through empathy and awareness, which is what you're doing on so many levels. It's really amazing to hear us, designers, can have an impact. And there are some definite strategies that we can enact.
Georgia Mejia
Yeah, definitely. The one other thing that I just think is really interesting, and I see it with my son and how his brain works, is that it's not just about saying, ‘Oh, these are really intelligent people.’ It's intelligent in a different way, right? So even neurotypical people can have a lot of really intelligent people, but the part of the brain that you use, or the type of things that you're really good at, it's often very, very different from the neurodiverse brain.
And the types of things that my son says or other dyspraxic individuals or autistic individuals uses a totally different part of the brain that I, myself could never tap into. It's almost like, when you're talking about a hiring strategy, you want to have these individuals in the workplace because how their brain works is actually phenomenal if you tap into it. If you can support their mental wellbeing and give them a comfortable place to work, then what a well-rounded group of ideas you're going to have across the board.
Brian Ledder
Right? It's like a well of creativity and potential innovation that's been untapped.
Georgia Mejia
Definitely.
Brian Ledder
Well, hopefully we find ways to tap into that more frequently in the future. Georgia, this has been great. Thanks for taking time to speak with us. It's super valuable information for us to have and to put out there. So, I want to thank you for that and for all your hard work raising awareness through multiple channels and building support for those with dyspraxia.
Georgia Mejia
Brian, thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.